We are continuing to search through our archives from the past few years, Ivan Thunders remembers the time he had a chat with Simone Butler, the bassist in Primal Scream. Ivan passed these words on to us.
I was lucky enough to interview the newest member of Primal Scream a few years ago, Simone Butler, who replaced Mani. Of course, as a Primal Scream AND Stone Roses fan I was originally disappointed to hear that Mani had left the band - after all, he joined the band for one of their best and most creative periods, playing in albums such as Vanishing Point and XTRMNTR. Watching them live, with Mani's booming bass on 'Kowalski' was always a great experience.
However, the replacement wasn't bad at all: Debbie Googe of My Bloody Valentine. A great bassist but who somehow seemed to be just a help in passing, rather than a full-fledged member. She was replaced by Simone Butler in 2012, who's been with the band ever since.
It's fair to say that Simone injected new blood into the band, and fit right-in with them - also adding a more feminine touch into what could sometimes be too much of a "boys club" type of band, verging into rock'n'roll cliché, as during the 'Give Out But Don't Give Up' days (despite the welcome presence of Denise Johnson, who sadly passed away this week.)
I last saw Primal Scream at Primavera Festival in 2019. They were great as usual and it was the first time I saw them with Simone - she's definitely a charismatic performer, commanding her corner of the stage with the same confidence of founder members Andrew Innes and Bobbie Gillespie.Â
Besides playing with Primal Scream, Simone Butler is also a DJ, and presenter at London's Soho Radio, with her popular Naked Lunch radio show.
So, back in 2015 I thought it'd be great to catch up with her and see what tips she could share with new bands and up-and-coming artists, plus check out some of her favourite songs! Â A chat about music, pure and simple.
Ivan: What do you think makes a great song?
Simone: That’s a pretty difficult question, I mean there's no one formula for everything. That in itself is an element of a great track: to make something that sounds like nothing else. I remember the first time I heard Suicide... I just fell in love with them immediately, they sounded like nothing else. It was 'Dream Baby Dream' - it sounded other worldly. It was perfect.
I think it's important not to overcrowd a track, give it space to breathe. It's true what Thelonius Monk said, "less is more". If you take a track like The Troggs' 'I Want You' (one of my fave tracks) or or even 'Wild Thing', they could almost be the same song. The beauty is in the simplicity, the growl of the guitar, the space, the whole vibe.
I think everything has to fit in a track, it can't have a vocal that just doesn't sit well with the guitar, etc. The person singing has to mean what they say. I think that's really important. Play it like you mean it, whatever it is you're doing. When you listen to Wayne Kramer's guitar solo on 'Looking at You' it rips your heart out. His heart and soul are in it. It couldn't be any other way.
Ivan: Cool. Anything else, do you think?
Simone: A great track, if it's not instrumental, has to have great lyrics. I've heard many potentially good songs be ruined by really mediocre lyrics. Not everything has to rhyme perfectly or fit perfectly. Think outside of the obvious. Don't use phrases that are cliché or have been used time and time again. You can say things you wouldn't normally say in a song. You can be a third person, you can create scenarios that didn't exist before. You can reveal how you truly feel about someone or something. But going back to what I started with, it doesn't have to pretty and perfect. I love the way Sly Stone phrases words to fit around a beat or a riff, or line. That area in the middle of the road... stay away from it.
It's gotta make you feel something, either that or make you move. There is also something great about a perfect pop song. When it's right it's genius. Look at how Phil Spector approached songwriting and melody for all the girl bands. 'Be My Baby' is a perfect song in my opinion.
Ivan: How important is the studio time, the quality of the recording?
Simone: If you are the kind of band who can afford it, work with a good mixer and engineer; it can make or break a track in my opinion. A good mixer will keep his ego out of it and understand your vision and get to that point musically. It doesn't have to be the biggest name in the industry, it just has to be someone who is going to do the best job. That said, you could make something on a beat up old tape machine in a garage and it could be the best thing in the world. There's no recipe for the end product. Ultimately the more you listen to the more reference points you have, and the more equipment you experiment with the more you can create sonically. Never be afraid to experiment."
Ivan: What do you think new bands should know if they want to get played on the radio?
Simone: First of all, gone are the days when a band or artist are played on the radio and the next week its number one. Mainstream radio is pretty much all playlisted except for specialist shows which are getting fewer and fewer. On the flip side, there are so many new internet stations now which are filling the gap in the market, where all the big leagues are failing to pick up on talent. These stations are really important for new bands. It allows a relationship and a following to develop at grass roots.
It's a fact that FM radio audiences are getting smaller and smaller and Internet station listeners are rising. I host a show on Soho Radio. It's an internet station based in the heart of central London. Everyone on there is a musician, or a DJ, producer, writer or a creative in their field who understands all sides of the industry. None of it is playlisted, we all create our own shows. I've been with them since day one and have seen it grow so much in the first year alone. I would urge any band who want to get radio play to visit all these stations, because they are small they are much more accessible. Pop in, go meet the presenters and be really friendly. Be your own manager and your own PR. Hit them up on social media."
Ivan: What’s the importance of DJs these days, post John Peel etc?
Simone: A DJ has the power to break a band. I'll tell you why, because even if it's at a small station, they are so well connected that they will know promoters who will be able to put said band on for the new night they have. Their friend probably works at a much bigger station, and the presenter will say "Check this band out...
More and more people are tuning out of huge stations and choosing smaller niche stations with people who genuinely love music. On a practical level, if you have music to give a station, make sure it's a good recording, make sure it's the best example of what you're about as a band. If it's good, it will get peoples' attention. Keep fighting the good fight.
Ivan: Any tips for new bands who want to get good gigs?
Whether you like it or not, we live in an age where social media is a huge tool. And it is just that. It's very useful for new bands building up a following. Take control of it. Befriend promoters whose nights you like. It's a bit of a cliché but networking and meeting people is important, I think. Contact venues you would like to play in. Start your own night! There is absolutely nothing stopping you and a few friends' bands doing it yourselves. You could end up making some money on the side from it too.
Keep a great relationship with venue managers and promoters. Don't act cocky and rude, no one will want to book you. Free streaming has been a thing for a long time now. Get a page together on Soundcloud with your tracks and email promoters and other bands who you think would go well with your band on a night. Sometimes it's easier than people going through a tonne of CDs. Ultimately don't give up. You will get knock backs. Just don't lose your love for making music.
Ivan: Do you think getting signed is still important for bands?
Simone: Yes and no. I think it's good to have a publishing deal and good management. But it really depends on the label and the band and the deal. Signing with a big label may mean you have a lot less control over what happens, but they will have the budget to push you. They also have the ability to drop you in a second if they don't recoup. I'm a fan of smaller independent labels. Rough Trade, Heavenly, Tummy Touch, Thrill Jockey, Sonic Cathedral.
I like how smaller labels can specialise and be in tune with the band's audience. I think the right label can really guide you and help you grow. If I was in a very new band looking at deals I would say don't jump at the first offer, see what else is out there and don't be dazzled by figures you may get given. Build your following from gigging. If people like you, then audiences will start growing and word of mouth is a powerful thing. This is how record labels find out about you, but you have to be out there playing great shows, working hard. Always keep working.
With that, our chat was over. Always good to get a few tips from a Primal Scream member... a privilege, for sure!
Words: Ivan Thunders of Thee Lucifer Sams / Liverpool Psychedelic Society, Photo: Press